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Wacom cintiq pro 16? Is there something better?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by FrankenCreations, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. FrankenCreations

    FrankenCreations

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    It's been a very long time since I sat at a graphic design desk and I'm a bit behind on current tech. When I did this I used a wacom pen mouse with photoshop. It was about the size of a typical mouse pad and I looked at the monitor instead of where my penstrokes were.

    I am looking at buying a good graphics tablet for my daughter for her birthday. I dont need a full graphics computer tablet, just screen and input for a desktop computer. She has been art minded since toddler age and is showing real promise now. My budget isn't unlimited but money really isn't the deciding factor here.

    I can only assume there are members here who work in the industry using these types of things regularly. I know when I was doing graphics work wacom was the goto standard of quality. My question is are they still?

    I read alot of reviews and looked at specs/features for several hours and the cintiq pro seemed to stand out as higher quality than the competition but at $1500 I want to be sure. I dont mind paying more if im getting the best but I dont want to spend extra just for a brand name either.

    Are there other brands that can do what the cintiq does and do it as well. Some of the big selling points for me were the extremely high number of pressure levels, the pen not working through capacitive touch, etched glass screen and high quality color representation. It just seems like this is the best you can get currently but I want to hear from some of you before making such a large purchase.
     
  2. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
  3. FrankenCreations

    FrankenCreations

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    I have looked at these and mobility isnt a concern. I also looked at the wacom version. I plan to stick with a wired input device locked to a desk for several reasons including not wanting my teenage daughter running around carrying a couple thousand dollar piece of hardware. The ipad and surface pro both use capacitive touch for the stylus I believe which puts it at a lower quality standard for me. Im looking for the most accurate, feels like pen on paper experience I can find. Being able to use your stylus like an airbrush and the device knowing its near the screen but not touching is a bonus for me. Also reading pen strokes and touches through different means makes for being able to lay your palm down onscreen while drawing without leaving unwanted penstrokes as the device knows a touch from a hand is not the pen. Mobility and cost aren't really my concerns, I want accuracy and quality above all. I just thought maybe others could do this with a similar feel and less known name brand. Im almost set on the cintiq just want to do my homework before pulling the trigger on such a large purchase.
     
  4. wccrawford

    wccrawford

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    I'm not an artist either, but I'd like to be. I ended up buying an HP Spectre. http://store.hp.com/us/en/mdp/laptops/spectre-x360-344520--1

    It impressed me with how smooth it was, and I was able to try it in a Best Buy, so I wasn't buying it blind.

    I haven't used it as much as I should, but what I've done with it has been smooth and impressive.
     
  5. wccrawford

    wccrawford

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    Also, I'm 99% sure the Surface Pro Pen isn't capacitive touch. It's got way too much sensitivity for that.

    If you're looking for cheaper pads that compare to the Cintiq, they're out there. Amazon has them, and so does Monoprice. Searching for information on them will get a lot of recommendations for good ones from art-based forums.
     
  6. FrankenCreations

    FrankenCreations

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    The surface pro and ipad pro both definitely use capacitive touch to read the active stylus. The accuracy of pressure and tilt is read by the pen tip and transmitted to the device. This means that not only does the pen need batteries but also that the screen dosent know where it is until it touches and a finger touch is easily mistaken for a pen touch leading to unwanted artifacts. It also means no cursor is displayed until you actually make contact.

    I am not looking for a graphics computer only the pen display. I dont need the screen and pen to be anymore than a screen and pen, no processing power required. I have looked at the wacom companion and others but for me this isn't the best option. It will be locked to a desk and not moved around. I also have more than enough computer power already in my desktop rig. All I need is pen display.

    As far as a cheaper alternative thats nearly as good, thats not good enough. I have the cash to spend and I'm not too worried about cost. My real question is are there better pen displays? I would gladly spend more if told of a product with better capabilities.
     
  7. Tzan

    Tzan

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    Not sure what you mean by "locked to a desk".
    The Companion is a self contained computer that is mobile.
    Screens like the Wacom Cintiq 13HD are screens that connect to a computer for $800.
    Wacom sells both types of things.

    Not sure what the difference is between
    Cintiq Pro 13 and Cintiq 13HD
     
  8. FrankenCreations

    FrankenCreations

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    By locked to a desk I mean Im looking for something similar to the cintiq hd13 as opposed to the companion. Not really locked to the desk but intended to be used at a desk with my large desktop computer as opposed to the companion which is self contained and intended to be mobil. I am only looking for screen and pen not a full tablet computer.

    The cintiq pro is a newer model with an etched glass screen and double the levels of pressure sensitivity. They come in a 13 inch for $999 and a 16 inch for $1499.

    What I really want to know is if this is really better than any competition. If I am told of something of equal quality for less I will buy that. If I am told of something better that costs more I will buy that instead.

    I have the funds and a good excuse to spend it so I really aim to purchase the best I can find.
     
  9. nipoco

    nipoco

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    Wacom still makes the best tablet's you can get.
    Yes there are cheaper ones. But keep in mind, Wacom tablets are extremely durable too.
     
  10. Tzan

    Tzan

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    I'm not aware of any company that makes a better product than Wacom.
    There aren't many industries that are so totally dominated by one company.
    I would never even consider buying something other than a Wacom.
    I own 2 regular style Wacom tablets, no screens.
     
  11. The-Britain

    The-Britain

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  12. FrankenCreations

    FrankenCreations

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    Im not either but I was hoping a lifelong artist would know something I didnt. Since fine quality is my desire I'm leaning heavily towards wacom unless someone speaks out with something better in mind.
    Only because I wont buy one. No offense intended but I'm looking for top of the line money is no option hardware and your recommendation has 1/4 the levels of pressure sensitivity no multitouch no tilt sensitivity and a preapplied matte screen protector instead of etched glass compared to the wacom cintiq pro line.
     
  13. The-Britain

    The-Britain

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    My mistake, I thought you were looking for a budget replacement where you weren't dumping that much money. If "money is no option" then go with the industry standard.
     
    wccrawford and FrankenCreations like this.
  14. FrankenCreations

    FrankenCreations

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    Yes this is the goal. Its been nearly 20 years since I sat a a desk doing this type work and I thought wacom may have some challengers come along in the meantime. From what I'm seeing though they are still a good deal ahead of anyone else.

    I've almost completely decided to go with my original thought at this point. It will be a month or slightly longer untill the purchase though so there's still time to change my mind.

    I know it won't mean a great deal coming from a non professional artist but I will update this thread with my thoughts once it gets bought. I told my daughter I would get it for her but she had to let me use it on occasion. It's my real hope to just put her to work making my game graphics but we will see how that goes.:D
     
    Ryiah and Tzan like this.
  15. The-Britain

    The-Britain

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    There are a few high grade tablets out there, but compatibility is probably the biggest hurdle and Wacom still has the monopoly on that.
     
  16. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    There are challengers on the market but none of them seem to be interested in trying to push the technology in the same way as Wacom. Give them a year or two and there likely will be a competitor to this line of tablets, but by that point Wacom will just come out with another new series.

    By the way there are larger editions (24- and 32-inch) for this tablet coming out in the beginning of next year, but they're also considerably more expensive ($1,999 and $3,299). Resolution seems to still be 4K.

    http://www.cartoonbrew.com/tech/wacom-launching-24-32-inch-4k-cintiq-pro-tablets-152414.html
     
  17. FrankenCreations

    FrankenCreations

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    @Ryiah Thank you, I was not aware of larger models. I will discuss this option with my daughter and see of she is willing to wait but somehow I doubt she will. Her birthday is late November and we usually find her something she wants then and call it Christmas as well. Thats one reason I dont mind spending $1500 to $2000. She may decide a couple months isn't too long but as a young teenager I doubt she has the willpower to wait.
     
  18. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    I can't say what tech is behind it, but the above does not at all apply to my Surface Pro 4. I'm pretty sure that the pen and finger touch use different tech, though.

    The cursor appears when the pen tip is about a centimeter above the screen, and you can easily move the cursor around without touching the screen at all. I don't know if there's tilt support, I've never used it. I did look for it in Photoshop once to play around, but had no idea what I was doing. I've never knowingly had a pen or finger touch mistaken for the other.

    That all aside, if art is the prime focus here I don't know if a Surface is what you want. As neat as the pen is, it's meant as a general purpose, natural feeling input tool. I don't know that it competes with art-focused tools like Wacom tablets. That being said, I heard a few months ago that there's a different pen on the way that's compatible with the Surface with features more like a Wacom.
     
  19. FrankenCreations

    FrankenCreations

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    The reviews I looked at were likely for the previous model surface pro. I was watching videos and the artist was showing points left when he put his palm down onscreen. The surface 4 im sure made an upgrade.

    One of the factors driving me away from surface and ipad pro is the fact that they are full computers with an operating system as opposed to just an input and display device. I considered both options and decided that since I already have a pretty good computer and desk space mobil wasn't a big selling point. I also like that I can use a display/input with any computer and upgrade my desktop system without replacing the pen display.

    After a bit of quick research I found the surface pen 4 does work off of electromagnetic induction rather than touch. It does support 4 thousand levels of pressure and some degree of tilt. I cant seem to find specs on levels of tilt so I'm unsure how it compares there. I cant find any mention of rotational control like you would need for painting with fan shaped brushes either.
     
  20. Nossgrr

    Nossgrr

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    I bought the Ugee hk1560 15.6" for $549 on Amazon and am quite happy with it for the price.
    You do have to uninstall 'everything' Wacom driver related including their wintab drivers.. Once that's done it's smooth sailing.

    I would love to have a genuine Wacom but until their prices come down to mere mortal levels, alternatives will get my $$.
     
  21. neubiole

    neubiole

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    When it comes to the graphics tablet Wacom has really good choices. You can either go with Surface Pro or Wacom Cintiq both of them are a good fit for graphic design. If you will search for a good artist tablet you will probably see these 2 names on the list. According to me, it does not make much sense to spend more than $1000 because you can get the best products under this range.

    https://graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/questions/5/are-graphics-tablets-worth-it
    http://www.topreviewhut.com/tablets-for-artists-reviews/
     
  22. FrankenCreations

    FrankenCreations

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    I would generally agree however for this particular purchase I think I will go with a slightly larger version of the best product. The cintiq pro13 at $999 is likely more than good enough but I'm going to go up to the 16 inch for $1499 just because I can. I'm not even getting it for me and I'm excited to see it unboxed.
     
  23. mrmdesign

    mrmdesign

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    Wow. I am envious. I would love one of those one day.

    I have a Surface Pro 4 and do find it pretty good but it feels a bit laggy compared to my Yiynova DP10U graphics screen hooked up to my laptop or desktop.
    I have a small Asus Vivotab Note 8 tablet with Wacom tech and a Wacom Bamboo to compare against but have never had enough money to justify blowing a massive wad of cash on a Cintiq. (although I have always really wanted one)

    I recently got this years iPad Pro which I have hooked up to my Windows laptop, mac mini and Windows desktop via USB using Duet Pro.
    The performance is actually amazing in Zbrush and 3D Coat. I am really pleasantly surprised considering I originally bought it for ARKit. The speed is actually better than my Surface Pro and my Yiynova tablet. It has full pressure sensitivity in both apps and works as an additional screen so I can have something else going on on my main screen.

    I guess my opinion is really helpful for you but might be useful for those with slightly tighter purse strings.

    I am also not saying 'go out and buy an iPad pro as a Cintiq replacement' but if you have one anyway, it is well worth laying a bit of dosh down for Duet pro.
     
  24. FrankenCreations

    FrankenCreations

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    I must admit that this is not a purchase I can justify. I can't tell myself that it's worth the money and will pay off in time saved at work. I am not a professional artist neither is my daughter. I did spend years in art classes and I'm handy with a pencil. I did work as a graphic designer/artist in my younger years for a short time. I know my personality and how easily I am disappointed with expensive equipment, especially artists tools. I know that I will pick apart the faults of even the highest quality gear. I am aiming for the top so when I find these shortcomings I know they aren't there because I got the cheap stuff. I dont want to look up and say "I wish I had spent a few hundred more so it could do this".

    I can rationalize the cost because that was money I had planned to spend on a gift anyway. I have it scheduled just like every year about this time. My daugters birthday falls within a month of Christmas and we frequently combine the two. It may seem a bit much spending a grand for Christmas and another for a birthday but thats about our normal. When our daughter was young it was always a fairly large purchase for each such as an iPad and a new tv for her room plus a pile of cheap junk like toys, knick knacks, coloring books, u know junk. At the end of the year we always ended up spending about 2 grand just from seeing another $10 item to add to the pile everytime we went shopping. After my daughter got old enough to think about things in a more adult way and realized how much was spent on things like dolls she asked if we could just get her something really good with all that money. From then on we have talked about what she wanted and helped her pick it out. Its basically saying "You get 2 grand a year to buy whatever presents you want". This covers birthday, Christmas and anything else she thinks she deserves a gift for. It takes the excitement of surprises out of the equation but we know that we are getting what she really wants.

    This has made it where instead of having a room full of toys she no longer desires she has several expensive things she will keep and use for years, her children may even use some of it someday. Her piano is a good example of that. It is one of the extra tall uprights built in 1905. It was in awful repair when we came across it but she wanted a piano, not just any piano but an antique with some soul. We found it and the old lady gave it to us just to get it out of her house. $500 to move it, $500 to soundproof/remodel a room in the house for it, $800 for parts and 2 weeks of 10 hour days doing the most intricate labor I've ever done fixing something a piano tech told me I couldn't fix. Now she has something that will be with her long after I'm gone instead of a doll that got its head replaced with leggo parts.
     
  25. mrmdesign

    mrmdesign

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    That sounds really sensible and I think the Cintiq will be a great investment.
    You are giving her the best tool for the job and the money spent will definitely guarantee the quality of the item in this case.

    I think I worded my response in the wrong way. I probably should have said 'I am way to tight to buy a Cintiq as I am always looking for the most cost effective option'. It's not the best way to be but I have a lot of bills to pay and I do such a variety of work (although I love drawing and sculpting more than anything else) that it would be money I couldn't justify - to my wife. ;-)

    I am a self employed business owner and I know that the Cintiq is a premium tool that I would definitely benefit from. Wacom are 'the' name to have and the build quality on their regular tablets is so good that I was using an ancient (non screen) Wacom tablet (with a serial port) for years.

    They feel effortless to use. The weight of the pen is perfect and the ease and speed that the marks appear on screen make them feel as natural as writing on paper. They have been going for years and I am pretty sure they will be around for many more.

    One day, I will probably get a Cintic but right now my laptop needs to be upgraded so that is next on my list.....

    Your daughter is very lucky and you are a very kind and sensible dad. I hope to be able to do the same for my three boys when they are old enough. Right now they are 6, 4 and 1 year olds and burn through toys every few months as things go in and out of favour. Turtles, Transformers, Starwars, Paw Patrol, Peppa Pig... Lego is the one constant. My older boys love the stuff. ;-)
     
    FrankenCreations likes this.